NEW: Updated for 2018! Check out the updated Physician Specialty Data Report for more information about the differences between DO vs MD!
If you’re trying to determine the difference between an MD and a DO, you almost certainly fit into one of two categories. You’re either a student considering a career in medicine or a patient wondering if a doctor with DO credentials is equally qualified to treat you as MD. Regardless of which category you fit in, this article will explain how D.O.’s differ from M.D.’s. But first, let’s quickly define a few terms.
What is an MD?
When most people think of a physician, they’re thinking of an M.D. – standing for Medical Doctor or Doctor of Medicine. MD’s practice a form of medicine called allopathic. James Whorton, the man credited with coining the phrase, explained that Doctors of Medicine (M.D.’s) use treatments that affect someone who’s ill differently than someone who’s healthy. For example, an antibiotic taken by someone without a bacterial infection would not improve his or her health.
Medical Doctors (MDs) in the United States attend medical schools accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME).
What is a DO?
Short for Osteopathic Doctor, DO’s receive their medical degree from a U.S. osteopathic school. Unlike MD’s, a DO is accredited by the American Osteopathic Associate Commission within the Osteopathic College Accreditation (COCA).
D.O.’s are trained to have a more holistic approach to medicine and follow a medical philosophy called osteopathic medicine. DO’s are trained to consider a patient’s environment, nutrition, and body system as a whole when diagnosing and treating medical conditions.
For example, they’re required to take an additional 200 hours of training in osteopathic manipulative medicine – the practice of manipulating musculoskeletal tissue to relieve pain – versus an MD which would, in theory, suggest taking pain relievers.
Similarities between MD’s & DO’s
- Both MD and DO physicians base diagnosis and treatment recommendations on scientifically-proven conclusions.
- Attend 4 years of medical school, plus a residency program ranging from 3-7 years
- Are licensed by the same state licensing boards, i.e. both MDs and DOs must meet the same requirements to practice medicine
- Can practice medicine in all 50 states.
- Are found in every type of specialty medicine.
- Follow the same undergraduate academic path – a bachelor’s degree, Pre Med coursework, and taking the MCAT
Primary Differences between DOs & MDs
- Medical students attending osteopathic schools (DOs) must take an additional 200 hours of training learning manipulation techniques of the musckeloskeltial system.
- DO physicians tend to be primary care physicians, whereas U.S.M.D.’s tend to specialize in more specific types of medicine (Dermatology, Cardiology, Orthopedics, etc.)
- In the United States, 67.4% of active physicians are M.D.s vs. 7.3% which are D.O.s (The remaining 24.2% received their degree from a medical school outside of the United States.)
- DO students take the Comprehensive Medical Licensing Examination (COMLEX). MD medical students take the United States Medical Licensing Exam (USMLE).
- MD.’s tend to practice medicine in urban, metropolitan areas. D.O.’s are most prevalent in rural areas.
DO vs MD Salary: Do MDs Make More Money Than DOs?
Technically, a DO’s salary is no less than an MD’s salary. In other words, a doctor’s annual salary is determined by a number of factors, primarily their field of specialization (radiologists, plastic surgeon, cardiologists, family medicine, etc.). Whether or not a practicing physician is a DO or MD is not one of these factors.
However, if you look at the raw data, you’ll notice the average annual wages of an MD are slightly higher than a DO. This statistic is misleading. MD’s tend to earn larger salaries, because they tend to specialize, attend school for several additional years, and live in metropolitan areas where the cost of living is much higher; not because the initials after their name are MD rather than DO.
This map explains the DO vs MD salary debate. As you can see, DOs tend to practice in states dominated by rural communities. The cost of living in a particular city is one of the biggest factors in determining one’s salary. So, by nature, if MDs tend to live in large, metropolitan areas (near major hospitals), then they will generally have higher salaries.
Residency for MDs vs Residency for DOs – Do MDs or DOs Have Higher Acceptance Rates?
Generally speaking, the acceptance rates of DOs to highly competitive MD residency programs are lower. The exception to this is highly competitive primary care residency programs, where DOs have equal acceptance rates as MDs. Although some MD residency programs will accept the COMLEX test scores, most require DO students also take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX.
DO vs MD FAQs Answered by Doctors
People seem to have a lot of specific questions about the differences between MDs and DOs. If you have any additional questions, ask them in the comments and a doctor will answer you directly!
Can DOs write prescriptions?
A DO is licensed just like an MD. As such, a DO can write any prescription an MD can.
Which is more difficult to obtain, a D.O. or an M.D.?
Becoming an MD or a DO both require an exceptional amount of drive, tenacity, and intelligence. D.O. programs actually have lower acceptance rates than M.D. programs. And, DO’s are required to take an additional 200 hours of coursework. But, in all honesty, neither track is more or less difficult. It’s more important to determine which is most inline with your personal and professional goals.
Do DOs have lower MCAT scores?
The average matriculant MCAT score for DO’s is 25.31, whereas the average MCAT score for MD matriculants is 31.4.
You can find an interesting spreadsheet on the average MCAT scores and preference of DO vs MD by state here.
What do all of these Acronyms Mean?
AAMC – Association of American Medical Colleges
ACGME – Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education
AMA – American Medical Association
AOA – American Osteopathic Association
COCA – Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation
D.O. Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine
GME Graduate medical education
IMG International medical graduate
LCME – Liaison Committee on Medical Education
M.D. Doctor of Medicine
History of MDs & DOs
Early medical education wasn’t as formalized as you might think. For example, surgeons and physicians were considered entirely different careers.
Also interesting, medical students were taught almost exclusively through lectures (without any real interaction with patients).
However, medical education eventually became more structured, giving way to formalization of the Medical Doctor (MD) and Osteopathic Doctors (DO) as we know them today.
History of MDs
Some argue the history of the medical doctor degree started began when the American Medical Association was founded (1845). The AMA is credited with establishing modern educational standards and curriculum for the degree of Doctor of Medicine, including:
- 3 year curriculum
- 2 six month lecture-based semesters
- 3 month medical dissection lab
- 6 month attendance at a hospital
However, most historians assert the formal model of MD education was established at John Hopkins – nearly 80 years later – when Dr. William Osler introduced the idea of clerkship. For the first time, medical students were given real, hands-on experience under the eye of an experienced doctor. Over the years, the MD program continued to evolve into the current, four-year degree program for MDs.
When this article was written, there were 141 accredited, MD-granting university and 31 DO-granting medical schools in the United States. Today there are three additional DO-granting schools.
History of Osteopathic Medicine (DOs)
Andrew Taylor Still was the father of osteopathy. A frontier physician, Still became disillusioned with allopathic medicine when his children died from meningitis.
Still developed a theory based on the comparison of the human body to a machine. He argued that the human body functions well if it’s mechanically sound. And, it’s the physician’s role to improve its mechanical functioning.
Only five years after forming the American School of Osteopathy in 1892, Still had over 700 students. (Unlike MD’s, women and minorities were encouraged to become professional physicians from the start.)
During the 1900s, Still and his disciples continually proved the validity of the osteopathic approach. In 1973 their persistence was rewarded, and DOs were officially given full rights to practices in all states.
Today, DOs are respected among MDs as equally capable and educated medical professionals.
Additional Facts & Statistics MDs & DOs
- DOs historically have been concentrated in the Northeast and Midwest.
- DOs tendency to practice in rural areas as can be seen by the states with the largest growth in DOs – South Dakota, Wyoming, Utah, North Carolina, Minnesota, Oregon, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Idaho.
- 4% of DOs are women and 49% of DOs actively practicing medicine for less than 9 years are women.
- 17,937 DOs are enrolled in postdoctoral training, 46% of which are in AOA programs and 54% of which are in AGME programs
Summary: Understanding DO vs MD
In the United States, doctors are either an MD (allopathic doctor) or DO (osteopathic doctor). For patients, there’s virtually no difference between treatment by a DO vs MD. In other words, you should be equally comfortable if your doctor is an M.D. or a D.O. For those pursuing a career in medicine, hopefully this article has helped your quest to become a licensed physician.
Additional Resources
https://www.aamc.org/download/471786/data/2016physicianspecialtydatareportexecutivesummary.pdf
http://members.aamc.org/iweb/upload/Results_of_the_2017_Medical_School_Enrollment_Survey.pdf
http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2012-EntandGradStSurv-CompRpt.pdf?sfvrsn=6
Comments are purely for informational purposes and are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Disclaimer
Dr. Ahmed,
Thanks so much for the article. I’m a med student and I’m trying to decide whether to go the MD or DO route. This was super helpful but I have a question.
I don’t have any kind of idea what kind of doctor I want to be, much less whether or not I’ll specialize. For someone like myself, which medical school route would you suggest – MD or DO?
Thanks,
Micah
As a DO student with MDs in my family, I can tell you that you will be most likely be happy with either route. The main difference, as stated in the article, is OMM, or osteopathic manipulative medicine, a type of rehabilitative medicine similar to physical therapy, in which techniques are learned to treat somatic dysfunctions of the musculoskeletal system. For me, DO was the route I chose, because I wanted to learn these techniques, and now, nearing the end of my first semester, I am very happy that I did so. I’ve already been able to treat several (100+) people who suffer from a range of issues such as back pain, shoulder pain, difficulty breathing due to rib issues, lower extremity pain, and several other things. This all has been done in only my first semester! Overall it has been a very rewarding experience, but you have to learn OMM in addition to everything else it takes to becoming a doctor, so its not easy. I would recommend you do some more research on OMM and what makes DOs different from MDs (because we really are pretty different despite what the article says). Best of luck in your endeavors!
I have chosen a DO as my PCP the last three times I have changed doctors. Having had more physical than pure medical ailments (arthritis, lumbar spinal stenosis, torn rotator cuffs, etc.) I assumed that I would benefit from the described manipulative techniques supposedly employed by DOs and have to date, after more than ten years in their care, yet to have been physically touched by any of these doctors except for their use of a stethoscope to check breathing and heart rate. What is their motivation for training in the osteopathic manipulative technology if they never intend to practice it?
As a retired RN from a University of California teaching institution, I find this article amusing.
And wrong.
Choose traditional med school, grasshopper
The RN really has no place to speak on this topic, despite being from a “California teaching institution,” as you’ve neither gotten into a medical school (DO or MD), completed medical school, passed your boards, completed residency, nor are a practicing physician. By your comment, you truly have no idea what you’re talking about.
An RN doesn’t have to go to medical school to know that this article is wrong. I work with both types of doctors and I can see what that retired nurse is talking about.
As having been a patient under the care of both types of doctors, I agree with you and the nurse.
I am an RN in a critical care unit and work with both. I see no difference in their levels of education and both MD”s and DO”s do a great job. My PCP is a DO and he is awesome.
46 years in Health Care, Medic, RN, CRNA, and OR Supervisor. Absolutely no difference between MD and DO. To say so proves ignorance.
As a patient , I will always choose my physicians are MD not DO.
Why? My daughter is an awesome DO surgeon. No different from an MD. What is YOUR point?
Oh ALL-MIGHTY-Nurse please enlighten me on how this DOCTOR is wrong in writing this article?
old dogs, new tricks. I prefer holistic first, drugs second. buh bye!
snark does so undermine the comment
Having been misdiagnosed by both MD’s and DO’s and then correctly diagnosed by a PA, I’m amused by your smug archaic comment.
Test scores are not everything. Just because a person doesn’t score as highly on a test as someone else does not mean that person is less intelligent or didn’t work hard enough. One of my classmates got into Cornell and he CHOSE to come to NYITCOM instead. I got more interviews from allopathic schools than I did from osteopathic schools. The funny thing is that many people would look down on an RN and assume RNs aren’t as good as doctors or didn’t work hard enough to get into medical school. I think people who say things like that simply don’t feel confident about themselves and want to make the people around them just as miserable as they are. And any M.D. with the holier than thou attitude against a D.O. probably just feels threatened because osteopathic doctors are just as qualified as they are to do everything that they can do—and more. The majority of doctors couldn’t care less whether you’re an M.D. or D.O. Are you qualified and capable? That’s all that really matters. If you have the drive and get into an accredited school, do well and become a licensed physician, that is all that matters. And being a doctor isn’t the only important profession in the world. You don’t respect someone because of the initials at the end of her name. Respect is earned. There are good doctors and bad doctors from both allopathic and osteopathic schools. Your personal experience with a D.O. or two is hardly proof of anything.
I think this contributor is stating his/her opinion. Opinions do not require “proof”, just as your comment is your opinion and certainly not based on fact.
Not much room here for anything but opinion.
Says the worthless RN 😂😂😂
Interesting…why do you say that?
I actually agree there are several inaccuracies in the article, but am interested in why you use “traditional” medicine rather than allopathic or osteopathic. Many, if not most DOs actually practice very “traditional” medicine and never use the OMT skills they were taught.
I am in DO school where they teach it. They are required to teach it for our board examinations. Most of us take USMLE and move on to match in competitive ACGME residencies. Its humorous for me to read these comments to this article. Its hard to judge another human being on DO or MD from an older person’s perspective AND I totally agree with that. When the older generations were younger, in the mid 1900’s, the requirement to get into DO school was: be alive, have a pulse, and maybe possess the ability to walk and talk. Yet, some of those old school DO doctors are still good at what they do. BUT, now DO school’s requirements to get in are on par with most low to mid tier MD schools. The school I attend had a matriculating class average for GPA at a 3.6 and an MCAT of 506. Yes the MCAT is lower and yes my personal MCAT was much higher but if you just look across town to the local university MD program. The averages for GPA are a 3.55 and MCAT of 508. Plainly speaking GPA and MCAT, DO vs MD, and any other comparison you would like to throw out anymore doesn’t make sense. The residencies for the two programs are merging and unifying. The AMA is a massive corporation and the AOA is not. In the upcoming years it wouldn’t surprise me if the DO degree was unified into the MD degree or something like that. Either way, in school we learn the same things. Albeit I do not have the same ability to find research as my MD counterparts but if you want it, you can make it happen. Its amusing to me that anyone can be judged by two letters at the end of their name whether it be RN, DO, MD, PA, etc. That generally has absolutely nothing to do with the person and their intelligence. I have met nurses that I would rather have as my primary care doctor than my MD. I have met MDs I would rather have as a physician than a DO. It really comes down to the person behind the degree and their level of competency. Contrary to popular belief we all learn the same stuff; DOs learn some archaic practices that 99% of us will never use. It’s the people that have a passion for medicine that make the difference between amazing healthcare worker or bad healthcare worker. In my opinion I would stop judging people for where they attended medical school and judge them by the way they practice medicine.
My own story of why I went to DO school started with my undergrad. I had a string of close family deaths resulting in me not doing great in my first year. I then graduated early and with honors. I did well on my MCAT but the first year of my undergraduate career is a scar on my record. Does it stink, yep! Does it matter, Nope! I will put in extra hours, learn more, and do more to make myself a better physician/healthcare worker. I also dislike how people are talking down to a nurse. Sure he/she has an opinion on MD vs DO. That’s her/his opinion. He/she probably had a crappy experience with a crappy doctor. We all have had them. They leave lasting memories. However, nurses are the real healthcare workers. Doctors do not have patients in the hospital, nurses do. Doctors see patients for 5-15 minutes unless they are surgically repairing something, in which case the patient is anaesthetised. Nurses see these patients 12-16 hours a day. I will never, ever know a patient as well as a nurse does. Respect the people that see you at your most vulnerable and take care of you.
My two cents as a young senior with no medical training, just years of doctor visits under both types. As with any profession you will have the good, the bad, and everything in between.
On a personal note, I was raised using a DO as our physician, but as an adult accepted coworker’s suggestions, most being MD’s. Until I took my health into my own hands and mom’s reminder on how we were raised I finely came to my senses and sought out a DO, which was then able to diagnose me properly.
What I see differently in a DO is that they have a better bed-side-manner, spend time during visits to find the root cause of the issue/illness, and will use non-prescription medicine when necessary but knows when its the best choice. If at all possible, I’ll choose a DO over a MD any day of the week.
For the med students on here, you can’t ask others for what direction to take, this must be your decision. If you have a superb bed-side-manner & prefer to look outside the box for your patients, then I would think DO is your calling. But if that isn’t you select another choice.
As for some of these despicable comments, you are no better than anyone else, so stop putting others down. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, stop judging ONE as ALL. If we were to follow this concept we couldn’t trust anyone.
A good example is when my dad was in the ICU for a stroke due to a mass in the brain. One of the meds they gave him was an anti-inflammatory, it made his skin crawl & feel tacky, which made him feel unclean. Now I don’t know if the nurses blew off the issue or just claimed he was disoriented but it almost killed him as he was having an allergic reaction to the med.
But on the nurses defense, my dad was very closed off with his health to the family, so if he would have been more open on what they were giving him, I might have seen the problem as we have the same allergy to this med.
So just because one person doesn’t have the same education/knowledge as you doesn’t mean they don’t know what they’re talking about. Lets start treating each other better then this and stop the hate.
I, applaud you!
As a patient with a number of years of experiences with both M.D.s and D.O’s, I find that while MDs and DOs are very capable physicians, the DO doctor appears to be more compassionate towards the patient. What I mean, is that the DO appears to be more willing to be compassionate to the patient’s concerns and needs. My vote is that all physicians get the DO degree. While this may not be practical, I personally only select DO’s to be my primary care doctor.
If you want to be taken seriously get an MD not a DO.
why would you say that?
I have 2 doctoral degrees, but neither in medicine – but I am a professional college advisor. I don’t lean either way. There are many things a DO can do that an MD can’t – like manipulative therapy. I am open to learning what an MD can do that a DO can’t – other than use the MD initials after their name. Statistically, most DO’s are PCPs and most MD’s specialize. I have two PCPs – an MD and a DO. Allopathic medicine focuses on drugs and surgery; osteopathic is more wholistic, but also uses drugs and surgery. When asked to differentiate between the two, I use this illustration. If I have a headache, the MD is likely to give me an aspirin. The DO will dig a little deeper to try to find the cause because (and this is a quote from my DO), “You don’t have a headache because you have an aspirin deficiency.”
I stick with M.D. Had horrible shoulder pain due to a fall at work. They sent me to a clinic, where I saw a very nice D.O. who sent me for therapy (as x-rays showed nothing, but before doing an MRI); updated him that it wasn’t helping and actually hurt during therapy and thereafter. D.O. says don’t worry, it’ll get better. Fast-forward 3 months later, I go in for follow-up and the D.O. isn’t there but a new guy, an M.D., is. I told him it’s still horrible pain and I also need my Tramarol refilled. He basically looks at me like I’m seeking pain meds, and he basically is looking down his nose at me and says, OK, well this shouldn’t be hurting any more – we’ll just send you for an MRI. I said, great; I’ve been asking for one forever. I go back 2 weeks later, they say, sorry, we can’t treat you here any more – your labrum is torn off about 80% and you need to see an orthopaedic for surgery! So there you have it; thank you so much to the DO for “treating” me and further for “listening” to me. Sometimes, less is more – listen to your patients and testing is good!
My physician, an MD, is retiring. He sees me every 4 months for a periodic checkup. I had a triple bypass in 2007, HIV since 1983 (best guess), and I’m 76 years old. Would an MD or DO be more suitable to treat me or does it matter one way or the other? I have no immediate health problems. Thank you.
Either would be qualified to provide excellent follow-up care for your heart. If any heart issues arise, then they may refer you to a cardiologist for evaluation. Thank you very much for your question.
My cardiologist is a DO. Can that be possible?
i have conjustive heart failure high blood pressure
Dr. Murtaza Ahmed:
I would like to comment that the person who coined the phrase ‘allopath’ was not James Whorton. It was coined by Samuel Hahnermann in the early 19th century. Otherwise, great article. Thank you for writing it.
I am a pre-med student beginning the process of applying to med schools. I want to become a pediatric neurologist. I have been doing some research and have not come across much info about DOs in neurology; I am curious as to how common it is for a neurologist to be a DO rather than MD. Also the residencies–are there more neuro residency opportunities for either path? And in general, which route seems more relevant to the speciality? I like the principles behind DO but I feel like the MD route might be better..
It is certainly possible, but D.O. students are not as competitive in test scores. In 2014 M.D.’s had average MCATs of 31. D.O.’s only had an average of 27 (a poor score relative to most in medicine). Some can make the most of med school and open opportunities, but most shoot lower as they did when accepting a D.O. school. Most D.O.’s become family practitioners and are generally not as competitive for desirable residencies as their M.D. peers.
Hi Sarah, I’m an osteopathic medical student. Commenting on Daniel’s reply, MCAT scores aren’t considered when applying for residency. Depending on the accreditation body the residency will accept USMLE (step 1 and 2) or COMLEX (step 1 and 2) scores. But here soon the accreditation is merging, and many residencies even now are accepting either exam. These exams are taken after the 2nd year and in the 3rd year respectively in medical school. Something I’m learning is that it’s not very important where you are for school (MD or DO, “prestigious” or not), but more so what you do with the experience. Bottom line, those who work harder and perform better are likely to have more choices for residency, than those (MD or DO students) who do not. Perhaps when considering apply for DO or MD, research more about OMT to see if that’s something you think you’ll be interested in. Good luck in your pursuits!
The question was in regards to going to medical school – not joining a residency program.
Umm. No it wasn’t.
OP: “…are there more neuro residency opportunities for either path?”
Hi Sarah, I’m an osteopathic medical student. Regarding the email from Daniel, residencies don’t look at MCAT scores. The main criteria they look at are: 1) board scores (USMLE, MD students or COMLEX, DO students). Many residencies already accept either score, and soon all residencies will have merged their accreditation bodies so the whole MD/DO thing for residency will be irrelevant. 2) You need good letters of recommendations from preceptors, mentors, and faculty. Either way, these two main criteria are determined by the way you perform in med school. Meaning it’s all on you. Your school won’t make or break you. I’m learning that those who work hard, regardless of where they are for school, end up getting higher board scores, the respect of the faculty, and more residency options. Some of the very competitive residencies such as Derm, ophthalmology, plastic surgery, or orthopedic surgery; your chances might be better at a MD school, but keep in mind, there are plenty of DO’s in those fields too. But other than that here’s some criteria that you may want to consider: 1) Do you think you’d like to use OMT? 2) Where would you like to live? 3) Are research opportunities important to you? 4) What is the curriculum style (problem-based, systems-based, etc) and which type is more compatible with your learning style? Best of luck in your pursuits!
Hi Sarah, I’m an osteopathic medical student. Regarding the email from Daniel, residencies don’t look at MCAT scores. The main criteria they look at are: 1) board scores (USMLE, MD students or COMLEX, DO students). Many residencies already accept either score, and soon all residencies will have merged their accreditation bodies so the whole MD/DO thing for residency will be irrelevant. 2) You need good letters of recommendations from preceptors, mentors, and faculty. Either way, these two main criteria are determined by the way you perform in med school. Meaning it’s all on you. Your school (MD or DO) won’t make or break you. I’m learning that those who work hard, regardless of where they are for school, end up getting higher board scores, the respect of the faculty, and more residency options. But other than that here’s some criteria that you may want to consider: 1) Do you think you’d like to use OMT? 2) Where would you like to live? 3) Are research opportunities important to you? 4) What is the curriculum style (problem-based, systems-based, etc) and which type is more compatible with your learning style? Best of luck in your pursuits!
The biggest difference between M.D.’s and D.O.’s is that while the practice of M.D.’s is firmly rooted in clinically proven science, D.O.’s were founded on a pseudoscience massage technique developed by A.T. Still. In A.T. Still’s philosophy, there was some magic layer that connected the whole body that could be manipulated to heal the “osteopathic lesion”. There is no evidence to support this assertion/lie. The massage techniques have been shown to be mildly useful for back pain, obviously, but they are also practiced by physical therapists and chiropractors (another form of pseudo-medicine founded on magnet therapy). The craziest D.O.’s believe massage techniques can heal asthma and Parkinson’s. This makes these D.O.’s particularly dangerous. D.O.’s also have lower GPA scores and admission test scores on average, but they are still fairly good students. Luckily, most people who attend D.O. schools only attended because it was their only choice. This means they get the training they need and throw the unscientific, unproven massage techniques out of medicine. D.O.’s are rapidly being assimilated into science based medicine and osteopathy is dying. The is beneficial for medicine and the patient.
Mr. Darden has both true and grossly false statements.
#1 The “magical layer” that connects the whole body is called connective tissue and fascia…. I think we can agree on that.
#2 It is true that >50% of graduating DOs will never use the manipulative techniques taught to them during their training. And by manipulation I certainly don’t mean “massage”. Manipulative techniques range from soft tissue (superficial) to “cracking bones” to re-setting bones such as radial heads and shoulders …most would agree that doesn’t qualify as massage.
#3 There are indications (that even some MDs use) for OMT in medical management of non-musculoskeletal conditions such as lymphatic techniques for lymphedema. How would Mr. Darden treat the obese patient’s lymphedema? (surgery? ha) No, you treat this disease with “massage”, compression, and musculoskeletal techniques such as pumping the foot to improve circulation and musculoskeletal tone on the lymphatics to push the lymph upwards and out.
#4 All medicine was founded on pseudoscience. Remember NEJM, JAMA, Uptodate was founded relatively recently. Didn’t George Washington bleed to death because the practice of “MDs” at that time was blood letting (wouldn’t you call this pseudoscience). The fact is that ALL medical schools, and hopefully ALL physicians use the latest data, studies, recommendations, and guidelines to help their medical decision making.
#5 Undergraduate GPA scores are equivalent amongst DO and MD students. (3.7-3.9) It is true that the national average for MCAT scores is 30 for MD and 25.5 for DO students. This is not surprising as DO is an up and coming degree (growing rapidly) and MD has had time to establish more prestigious institutions that bolster the national average. I am a DO that made 30 on MCAT, class average was 28.5, USMLE (yes we take this too sometimes) step 1 was 242 and Step 2 was 240. The national average for MD students was 218 at that time. Of DO’s who take USMLE the pass rate is nearly equivocal +/- 5%.
#6 I did not apply to MD schools not because I couldn’t have gotten in, but because I thought I wanted to be a side-line Dr for a college/pro sports team and with the extra training that DO’s get in the musculoskeletal system it was a no-brainer for me. As mentioned in the article, DOs get do the exact same course-work as MD students, the only difference being that DO students have >200 extra hours of musculoskeletal lecture and training. Across the board, DO’s present to residency better-versed in anatomical structure and function than MD counterparts and I don’t think anyone would question that. (not that they are smarter, just more training).
#7 I attended an allopathic residency in internal medicine, an allopathic fellowship in cardiology, an allopathic fellowship in interventional cardiology and currently practice in the southern US. I have the largest patient base in my practice of 4 MD physicians and my gross income last year was >$800K. So, if you are looking for a physician, internal medicine, or specialist, don’t look at the letters behind the physician’s name, look at the reputation that the individual has in the community, what others have said about them, and WHERE THEY DID THEIR RESIDENCY, how many procedures have they done or surgeries if they are a surgeon. Experience is key, not titles.
You sound like a DO on a mission to prove your worth. It is true that people who can’t make the cut for Medical School as an MD go into the DO field.
At the end of the day, your success is incumbent on how hard you work, so long as your GPA and Test scores are up to a certain standard. DO’s don’t meet the MD standard…that’s all.
As a patient with a chronic illness I’ve found that a typical MD is ignorant in regards to any type of holistic treatment and seem closed minded about treatments that haven’t been endorsed by the CDC. If they can’t come up with a solution that they didn’t learn in college then it either must not exist or they are unable or unwilling to come up with a plan or to do further research. I’m sure there are many wonderful MD’s out there but my comment is directed to the naysayers of DO’s. Just because someone scores higher on a test doesn’t mean they are smarter or have as much common sense or the will or desire to get results for their patients. Also test scores can’t gauge character or ethical behavior.
Thank you for your comment…I have had a very similar experience with MD’S!
Thank you for your comment…I have had a very similar experience with MD’S! I have been struggling with my health since 1998. The docs only reply is that I have an two autoimmune diseases. I have spent thousands of dollars trying to find help. I am hoping that a DO will be more helpful than my MD.
thank you Micky D! I much prefer holistic practices and my current MD looks at me cross-eyed when I bring it up. MDs would rather drug you… I have a holistic mixture of ginger, honey and lemon that beats anything an MD could throw at me in preventing simply the common cold! DO ALL THE WAY IN MY BOOK!
And shame on those that are being so disrespectful, simply because their beliefs do not align with the DO principles.
ya steve jobs also believed MDs were ignorant.. How did that turn out for him?
Jobs wouldn’t have listened to a DO either if they told him he needed surgery. Your comment is irrelevant to the discussion.
As someone who will be attending a D.O. school with a 4.0 GPA (It is possible that I might miss it by one class in my last semester.) and a 95th percentile MCAT score, I think that you need to reevaluate your “DOs don’t meet the MD standards” comment.
While it IS true that many people choose DO because they don’t have the scores for an MD school….it is also true that there are SOME DO students who kicked the tails of many MD students in terms of GPA and MCAT scores.
Anyone who says that DO students are, by virtue of the school they attend, beneath their MD counterparts in terms of intelligence, work ethic, or character is misinformed, and, with all due respect, you, sir, are ignorant.
YES YES YES GEORGE!!
(I feel very strongly about this subject. I thank all the DOs for going the extra mile for their certification, from those of us that prefer the holistic approach!)
Says the man who only wishes he was a doctor but is bitter.
Glen, it sounds like you are the one who is bitter. This guy appears to have a successful practice despite the fact that you think he’s not a doctor. Amazing!
The amount of ignorance in your post is hurting my eyes…..Are you even a medical professional/student?!
“Master Baits”? Really?
Can a provider in united states have both MD and DO licenses in same state?
Technically I’m not sure. But it really wouldn’t make much sense. The four years of medical school are essentially identical, minus the OMM hours for DO. It’d be like getting two of the exact English Degrees.
Article is very good, but contains one glaring error. In the “Primary Differences ” section it states,
“D.O.’s tend to practice medicine in urban, metropolitan areas. D.O.’s are most prevalent in rural areas.”.
It should start with “M.D’s tend to practice medicine in urban, metropolitan areas.”
Steve Eisenberg, Unless your page is different from mine, I could not find the error in the “Primary Differences …” section.
Steve Eisenberg, Unless your page is different from mine, I could not find the error in the “Primary Differences …” section.
I’d like to address my comment primarily to Mr. Darden, but any who care to respond are more than welcome. First my credentials. I am a high school graduate that was awarded my HS Diploma in exchange for my promise not to come back ! So you can readily see that I have little foundation to offer a “qualified” comment about the field of medicine. How ever as a 58 yr. old man with a doctorates degree from the University of Hard Knocks I’d like to both offer a statement and a question. Due to a myriad of medical problems I’ve had to call on the services of many doctors from a very diverse range of specialties. I’ve found that as with any vocation there are good, bad, terrible, and great to be found in the medical profession. I don’t think that I could place doctors across the board as one group being universally better than the other, experientially. My current primary care doctor is a DO and he is Board Certified. I LOVE him !! I believe that God first (working through my doctor) and then my doctor have saved my life on multiple occasions !! I would recommend my doctor to ANY one, hands down !! Now it just so happened that the primary care doctor who I had prior to him was an MD, and was Grossly negligent. He missed information on my blood work that had FLAG !! FLAG !! FLAG !! HIGH OUT OF RANGE !! wrote beside the data (referring to my white blood cell count). He later lost his medical license from neglect on other patients. Now does that mean I think all MD’s are negligent ? Absolutely not !! Does that mean I think that DO’s are better than MD’s and should be preferred over MD’s ? Absolutely not !! I think that my earlier comment holds true of both groups, and that is you will find: good, bad, terrible, great among both groups. Mr. Darden used the past to try to paint DO’s (or so it seemed to me) in a bad light. Well using that method I could go into a historical rant on MD’s. But I wont as that has nothing to do with the competence and skill of Current MD’s. Now at long last my question. Mr. Darden why are you going out of the way to blast DO’s ? Did you have some sort of bad experience with one ? Or maybe a loved one did ? I am not an educated man, and certainly don’t have a medical background other than dealing with a myriad of medical problems I have. But sir I think you are being grossly unjust to DO’s. I would say the exact same had you lashed out in such a manner at MD’s. You have an obvious chip on your shoulder and I hope you can find a way to resolve it. And unless you can qualify your comments with factual data gained from comprehensive study by multiple sources, I think you do readers an injustice to paint DO’s in such a negative light as well !! You’ll have people afraid to go to DO’s when they may be the main medical providers available in a given area, and sir that’s just not right to do. Thank you.
I very much agree with your assignment to compare MD’s vs OD’s. As a consumer of both academics, I find them to be equally qualified. As for you sir, you are one hell of a smart articulate human.
My current doctor (MD) told me that Omeprazole has an interaction when paired with Citalopram. I have been taking both together for 8+ years with no problems. Went to the pharmacy and asked if there was a drug interaction listed. NOPE! Emailed my MD advising that I have never had any problems. Her response? “oh, well. whatever works for you.”
Yes, I am looking for another doctor. This time a D.O.!
According to Drugs.com, Citalopram (Celexa) and Omeprazole have a major interaction. Concomitant treatment with Omeprazole causes increased levels of Citalopram in your bloodstream. This may result in an increased QT interval (A lengthened QT interval is a marker for the potential of ventricular tachyarrhythmias like torsades de pointes and a risk factor for sudden death). Basically your heart could stop pumping at any time. Your physician likely decided it wasn’t worth arguing with you after you decided you were smarter than him/her.
My regular M.D. missed a diagnosis for a couple of months. I got a correct diagnosis by a D.O. I had never seen before at a same day clinic. The diagnosis was kidney stones and the scan he ordered at the hospital revealed I had three. As you can imagine I had been complaining for many months and in quite a bit of discomfort. I did not know I have a horseshoe kidney, neither did the D.O., until after the scan. I did not present with the same symptoms exactly as someone with kidney stones that has two separate kidneys. The D.O. used some tapping and manupulated me to figure out what was wrong rather than write me another prescription then confirmed the diagnosis by having me scanned at the hospital.
A D.O. has a holistic view of health. Their interviewing skills and manual skills are better. With my kidney stones, I had been to the E.R. four times and their P.A.s gave me pain meds and sent me home each time. My M.D. kept giving me pain meds and I was getting nowhere so I skipped the system and went to a D.O. at a random local same day clinic.
I have been receiving better care from my D.O. since I learned that the cause is more of what D.O.s focus on. MD training appears to be more focused on fixing the symptom.
I learned this the hard way by being medicated but not diagnosed until a D.O. examined me.
I’m not the best writer but I hope that the readers understand what I am saying as this difference is subtle enough to overlook between the two.
Parts of this article are entirely misleading! DO students are just as competitive in specialties and are not relegated to “family medicines.” My husband, in fact, graduated with a DO degree and his ENTIRE residency class at the University of Kentucky are DOs (Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation)–beating out thousands of candidates at an “MD program”. My husband will also be doing a fellowship in Sports Medicine. The majority of his graduating class (well over 90%) were awarded their top choice in residency program, many of them in SPECIALTIES such as surgery and orthopedics. To say that “most DOs do this” versus “MDs are more likely to do this” is unfair to both sides. Putting in the work and getting the scores and showing that you can be a good doctor are what counts. This makes DOs sound like the second class citizens of the medical world, when in fact the AOA and ACGME are merging to a single accreditation system so their won’t be a distinction. Whether a doctor has an MD or a DO behind their name has no bearing on their worthiness or ability to be a doctor. And one final point… the DO exam is the COMLEX… not COMPLEX. No P.
Very helpful thank you!! Unless I am mistaken I think that it is spelled musculoskeletal not musckeloskeltial.
My orthopedic surgeon and my primary physician are both DO. Many of the hospitalist where I work are DOs. I live in Portland OR. I’m confused by the statement more work in the Northeast and Midwest. I never saw any and I am from these areas. When I moved to the Northwest and in to the city they are everywhere.
My daughter got acceptance from both texas tech MD and tcom DO. She is doing DO over MD. Fortworth is more convenient for us. My cardiologist is a great DO doctor. We live in Texas. It is hard to get into either school these days. I am not a doctor. But if students don’t get into DO/MD schools in US, they go to Caribbean schools and get MD. So, you would not know where he/she got the MD. (Caribbean, India, Pakistan, Russia, China, Afghanistan, Nigeria etc.) Just MD on your white coat will not make you a good doctor. My primary doctor is a good MD doctor. Even some Caribbean doctors must be better than some US MD doctors. The undergraduate GPA and MCAT scores at a tender age of 20/21 should not be counted. A human being is all different when reach the age of 30. That is probably the reason why some DOs get much better USMLE scores. I remember my son was doing Software Engineering at the age of 18 – 21. An absolutely horrible kid. He is a 25 year old mature Software Engineer, a responsible gentleman. Just 5 years made a big change. So, in my opinion, whether DO or MD if you are a compassionate and caring doctor, know what you are doing, you are a good doctor.
You say that just having an MD in the name doesn’t make you a good doctor. And yet you insult doctors from other places like China and India.
Might I remind you underachieving Americans that the Chinese and indians are kicking your collective rears in medicine and all other fields.
The DO track is designed for Americans. A way for underachievers to become doctors. Whether MDs or DOs, US doctors and medical students are the most incompetent I’ve ever seen. Too weak to do more than 80 measly hours of work a week.
Just look at the mortality rates of US trained physicians vs IMGs and know how incompetent they are.
The OP was not insulting doctors from other countries in general. They were questioning the quality of doctors WHO COULDN’T GET INTO US SCHOOLS and who had to SETTLE for inferior schools overseas.
Also, regarding the second insulting comment you made (an actual insult – not the mistaken insult you thought the OP made), you obviously aren’t reading the other comments here. DOs are obviously not “underacheivers”; they want extra instruction in an area that MD students don’t care about.
Really, who would you rather go to if you had a choice? An MD who graduated from a top medical and resident program or a DO who couldn’t make the grade to get into an MD program? Let’s be honest.
seems reasonable to me.
I would trust the person saving my life. They graduated from medical school. They have their licenses. Most people don’t care and usually respect the time and care it takes into becoming a DOCTOR. So, overall, it doesn’t matter. The difference in initials aren’t paid attention to by most. If the insurance can pay them (which mine does, depends on your level of coverage), then do whatever the hell you want.
Far be it from me to contradict a retired RN, but as an MS patient for many years I can attest to sometimes receiving better, more compassionate care, in my lay opinion, from several DO’s in comparison to my Yale Med neuro (whom I generally trust). I guess one could say you may not want to consider the opinion of a nurse who lacked the grades to get into osteopathic medicine. Or would that be over-simplification and presumptuous…….
Lol… Good one. True wisdom do come from humility. Humility: When one is strong enough to carry others ever expanding ego… From my experience, everyone has a purpose, we are all the same. Doctors in general makes highly educated guesses. (And sometimes some tend to become drug pushers, just kidding) But once I was allergic to an antibiotics, whole body acupressure twice a week not only healed my lungs, it made me feel so rejuvenated. I felt like oxygen were all over me; so I felt like I was floating when I walked.? I would want others to feel the same. Putting pressure in pain is the oldest form of healing. MDs don’t want this to happen because then they’ll run out of business. Unless it’s falling from high story building and such, surgeons should be the last resort. Prevention and natural healing CAN be attained overtime even instantaneously!
Hint: 2 points posterior to the base of your neck can lower down blood pressure. You’ll need this perhaps. ?
love it. THANK YOU!
Really, who would you rather go to: a D.O. who has been practicing for 40 years and has seen this a million times, or a fresh out of residency M.D. who went to John Hopkins and read about this one time in a textbook. The schooling doesn’t make a good doctor, the experience does.
Uh sorry, but doctors are talking here, nurses talk in the room next door.
But seriously though, as the poster above me said, how much does undergraduate matter when comparing 2 doctors? Hell, I was undergoing a lot of family issues and did not do well in my undergrad. I was grateful that a DO school took me in and gave me the chance to become a doctor. I managed to graduate with as top 10% of my class, and got into a great residency, a place where many MDs could not. Now tell me how much does undergraduate performance correlate with how good your doctor is, Ms.NURSE?
I find your comments interesting. The truth of the matter is that an incredibly high percentage of doctors graduating from osteopathic programs could not get into highly respected medical schools in order to obtain an MD. Notice I didn’t say “all”, there are some exceptions. When the ACGME levels out the playing field requiring DOs to take the same tests to become accredited, it will be a much fairer system. I am not saying all DOs are inferior. Either way is a long, expensive road. When you are an MD though, you are competing with people who all did well in their undergraduate work and all test well. It is a lot harder to be in the top 10% there. Sorry, it is true.
Prove it. You are just “someone else”. No credentials. No authority. You say, “Sorry, it is true”. Sorry, no one believes you.
Really nurse, i saw what you just wrote and you are just rude, i think if you could go to either of the med program you would have but you did nursing and yes that’s good as well. But for to refer to a DO as a person who couldn’t get good grade to make the cut for MD program is BS, please you are retired and have some respect because you couldn’t be a DO or as a nurse you couldn’t gone further to become an NP. You just rude, can you name all the bone and muscles in the human body with all the nerves and blood vessel supplying them including their origin, no you can’t and did you even do human cadaver, but a DO can do that.
My neurologist an MD was horrible to determine issues i had with my nerves, i repeated myself over a 100 times and he was nervous as hell because i know my body and prepping for MCAT and other degrees so i knew what i was talking about but yet i left the hospital with no solution but a folder filled with meds.
so don’t stand there as an RN and talk down to a DO profession. Go become an NP which is a higher education in nursing or doctor of nursing then you can have the gods to talk down on either professions, they are both hard work. omg.
I suggest you inform Mass General Hospital, Harvard Medical School (who has a DOs as faculty), Mayo Clinic, U of M hospital, UCLA, and many other “top” programs, that the DOs they have accepted are inferior.
As someone with a >3.95 GPA and an MCAT score in the 94-95th percentile, I believe that my scores are above average for the majority of MD schools. I will be attending a DO school. You have no idea what you are talking about.
In the article, I am confused by the assertion that salaries tend to be higher for MDs partly because they ‘attend school for several additional years’. When in other areas, it is said that MDs and DOs get the same amount of schooling with DOs getting an additional 200 hours of instruction for OMM.
MD’s do NOT attend school for several additional years. I assume the author was referring to specialty training. However, EVERY specialty open to MDs is also open to DOs.
sounds reasonable to me.
I’m currently studying for medical assistant, and I want to become a doctor, but of what is the question. Can you become both an M.D and a D.O? If so, how much more schooling does it take and is it possible?
You could, but there is absolutely no reason why you would ever do that. If you want to learn osteopathy, you become a DO. The preclinical training is essentially the same otherwise. To be both an MD and DO it would require 8 years of school in which you basically repeat the same courses. I don’t think anyone has ever done it because it doesn’t make sense to.
As a prospective patient, I can say that an important factor is whether the doctor is on my insurance plan (BCBS). I can say that my insurance plan has almost no DOs.
Can an Osteopathic physician, who is not his primary health provider, prescribe greater physical restrictions on a patient than the patient’ orthopedic physician, who the patient has been seen and treated for over 10 years. Additionally, the Osteopathic physician in his medical assessment of the patient, never conducted any form of Range of Motion (ROM) or manual muscle testing? The Osteopathic physician only reviewed a medical assessment statement from the patient’ Orthopedic physician and decided to add additional physical restrictions beyond the recommendations of the Orthopedic physician.
The amount of snobbism by some posters is amazing, even with hard data showing little difference (if any) between the two, MD/DO.
and the funny part is that some of these people aren’t even at the level of MD/DO…I mean nurses saying a DO are sub-par because they didn’t get a good grade in undergrad? lol.
I usually go to a male doctor but I think I would like to go to a female doctor this time. The one in my area has a DO behind her name. Should I go to her? I believe I have a female problem & I am 75 years old. I hardly ever go to a doctor unless I feel really bad. Thought I should go now since I am on another health plan.
Yes, a D.O. and an M.D. are both fully licensed physicians in all 50 states. The quality of care that you will receive from an M.D. or D.O. will depend entirely upon the physician, and their expertise in that field. Now with the merger of the residencies of both fields, the training of all residencies (D.O. and M.D.) have to live up to the same standards. You can not tell which one is more experienced based off of having a D.O. or M.D. behind their name. Go check out the D.O. physician. There is a good chance she is better than your old one.
Well, you only come with ONE body and NO SPARE parts, so shouldn’t your health be your first priority?
What is the difference between a DO and a naturopath?
Thanks
One is a doctor, the other is not. One can prescribe medication and perform surgery, the other cannot.
I am a DO in private practice in Maryland. My practice is mainly osteopathic manipulation. I did a residency in Rehabilitation Medicine. I have been doing this for over 25 years.
I work 4 short days a week, see 7 patients a day, and am never on call. We do not accept any insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, Motor Vehicle accident reimbursement from third party payers + All payment is at the time of the service. Therefore, all visits are for procedures which, as any physician will tell you, pay infinitely more than office visit/evaluation codes.
I earn around $250,000 a year for 10 months with 2 month vacation. I have one part-time secretary and own my office. Minimal expenses. Zero collections since we collect 100% of what we bill. I pay for a good CPA to make sure I keep most of what I collect.
I mention this because I want people to know that you can make a nice living with a very comfortable life as an osteopathic physician regardless of what you do with your degree.
I have never regretted going the osteopathic route.
I would trust you more if you studied and did an MD residency, THEN decided to be a DO. You have to know everything involved in both in order to judge which one is best for your patients. The more knowledge you have the better.
That is not at all how the process works. If you were aware of the process it takes to become a board certified physician, you would know that first, you attend a medical school…either MD or DO. Then you attend residency. You cannot choose to become a MD or DO after going through residency. It is impossible to determine, given the information, whether or not this individual did an MD or DO (AOA) residency.
As you say, the more knowledge the better.
And what qualifies you to assume that he is not trustworthy? What have you accomplished in your life?
You would trust him more ? Please, just with 3 sentences you already showed that you are completely ignorant with the path of medical education…
Honestly only an idiot would do whatever you suggested, as to do it he would have to:
4 years of MD school -> 3+ years of MD residency -> 4 more years of DO school (completely redundant at this point) -> ???
I am a 69-year old male who just moved to a new town and needed to establish a relationship with a new primary care doctor. My healthcare plan referred me to two doctors, one of whom it develops was not taking new patients, so I now have the other doctor, a D.O.
My first visit was great; she asked probing questions particularly about medications I have been taking and how long, etc. I wish that I had had this doctor for the past 30 years!
I have always taken good care of myself, eating right, exercising, hiking, bicycling, etc., and am still in great health and look younger than my age. A D.O. seems like a very good fit for a person who takes an active interest in one’s own health.
My thought though, is now that I am looking at the last decade or so of life and at some point will be experiencing diseases of some sort–cancer, prostate, etc., is a D.O. still the best fit for me, since her emphasis is on wellness, and I cannot expect to be well the remainder of my life?
Hi Wayne, It sounds to me like you are in great hands. It also sounds like you take pretty good care of yourself as well. You never know, many of my family members live well into the 80’s and 90’s with minimum issues. It is just my opinion, but I believe her positive approach and concern for your wellness speaks volumes. She has the paperwork to prove her qualifications and has shown her level of care and concern should something pop-up.
I saw a DO recently about a thumb problem and he recommended trapeziectomy (tightrope) surgery. He explained the procedure very well, and I have no doubt this is something that must be done. Here’s the thing: the doctor said he’s primarily a hand surgeon and has done many of these procedures; but I get the impression that DOs generally don’t perform surgeries. I wonder if I’d be wiser to go to a hand center and have an MD specializing in hand surgery evaluate and, likely, operate.
it is true that it is harder for DO to get into very competitive specialties (such as subspecialties in surgery), but if one manage to get into one and graduate from it, you can bet that he is as good as the other MD trained in the same program. The only difference between DO and MD is that DO receive 300h of OMT training in the first 2 years of medical school.
My opinion is that the degree (DO or MD) is not relevant for a hand surgeon, but rather the individual competence and experience of the surgeon. Having had hand surgery (ganglion cyst), I would choose a surgeon who specializes in hand surgery. My wife had gallbladder removal surgery had her general surgeon is a DO.
I’ve been seen by only one DO that I know of and just loved this guy. He was my primary doctor back in the early 80’s, Germantown, MD. He was honestly concerned with my good health as well as my illnesses. I never heard anything close to, “you have bronchitis and need to take this antibotic, goodbye.” or “I’ll send you a copy of your bloodwork, no news is good news – goodbye”. Instead, we would discuss my issues and he took the time to explain why things were going on. He came to my home when I had muscle spasms so that I wouldn’t have to crawl to the cab and would always call to see that I had followed, not only the meds but diet, exercise and stress recommendations. Wonderful, just wonderful – unfortunately, I can not remember his name.
That’s the other thing about my current doctor (MD). I lost 20 lbs. in the last year and it’s not from trying either. No matter than I need to lose 50 lbs. more. Haha.
I went to my doctor with concerns of cancer, etc., anything else detrimental. She took blood, nothing jumped out. Her response? “just keep monitoring it.” Guess what, I have lost 5 more lbs. and still have no idea why.
Hi Arthur,
There are not very many surgical subspecialty residency and fellowship programs run by DOs. If your physician is proficient in these procedures, he almost certainly completed an MD residency and/or fellowship. If you feel comfortable with this physician, there is little reason to go elsewhere as he was likely trained by MDs.
The article is misleading as it makes it appear that all DOs go into primary care. The reality is that more DOs go into primary care than MDs do, but a significant portion of DOs do specialize.
The DOs I have encountered at Kaiser have been in many areas, including General Surgery, Urgent care, Internal medicine (Primary care) and Hospitalist.
Just like the joke on Seinfeld….What do you call a med school dropout. A D.O. !!!
So funny……not. Read the thread before you type something stupid.
Reading some of these ridiculous comments. Why are some people so hateful? Two letters behind one’s name do not determine whether he or she will be a good doctor. Both MD and DO schools are competitive. If you graduate from medical school and pass your exams, you are qualified to practice medicine. A good doctor isn’t determined by the two letters behind the name. There are good doctors and there are bad doctors, just like there are good people and there are bad people. Just because you have perfect grades, scores, went to an ivy league school doesn’t mean you have any common sense or people skills necessary to be a good doctor. That arrogance is precisely the reason that some applicants are rejected from allopathic schools and osteopathic schools alike.
I have come across and been treated by MD and DO surgeons, neurologists, family practitioners, and others, and it seems to me that it’s the ones who practice the best are the most humane, as well as good diagnosticians, etc. I have found no great difference between the degrees. What I have found with some MDs is that they are haughty and don’t listen, more than DOs. If they are knowledgable, and sincerely practicing medicine for the patient’s needs, then I respect them.
Husband has Alzheimers Dementia; which is more appropriate for his primary care physician…a DO or MD?
Both would be equally competent treating your husband if board certified. I suggest seeing who you “connect” more with, as this is the most important factor.
The amount of disrespect from some of these people that were involved in medicine worries me. But maybe you’re just jaded and bitter, who knows?
Anyway, I’m thankful for this article and for the reasonable input from the comments–the personal anecdotes were especially helpful. I’m planning to attend med school and this has definitely helped me in knowing whether or not to pursue becoming an MD or a DO. That being said, I hope to never forget to make sure a patient knows why I’m doing the things I am and what this terminology I use means. I don’t want them to feel like I don’t really care, or that I see a problem in front of me rather than a person.
Being a good doctor involves more than doing well on tests. We’ve all met the arrogant doctor who thinks the patient is an idiot and doesn’t listen. Too much emphasis has been placed on the specific skill of test taking in the selection of physicians. Doctors who scored better on their MCAT prior to starting medical school have not been found to have better patient outcomes. Yes, a doctor needs to be able to draw on stored information about health and disease but also critical is the ability to hear what the patient is saying and integrate facts with awareness of what will be most helpful to the individual in need of care.
Are there a few prescriptions that only an Md can prescribe?
A friend once told me that he had to have an MD of internal medicine
in order to get and take Flurazepam, a sleeping pill.
My dad had successful outcome quad bypass in 2010 by a very experienced, credentialed, respected MD. Small midwest urban area. Dad suffers from severe PAD, requiring a surgical procedure. Cardiac doc retiring, has brought DO into practice with 8 years experience who has been assigned to my dad’s case. He is a nice enough person, but he received a BA, not BS undergrad and I had never heard of the medical school he attended. He did a vascular surgery fellowship. What is a fellowship? Surprised someone in a cardiac surgeon’s office was a DO as I always thought DO was associated with chiropractic. Should I look for an MD for this procedure? Or trust that the retiring MD would hire a qualified DO? Thank you.
Hi there,
Whether the doc had a BA/BS in undergraduate studies really doesn’t matter. It’s like asking a mechanic where he went for grade school. 8 years in practice, it is safe to say that medical school hardly matters as well. If you are still worried, look up where he trained for residency/fellowship. As these are the place where a medical student really learn his/her trade, not the school.
Also FYI:
1) DO can do whatever specialty available provided he could match into a residency of that specialty (so yes DO can do cardio-thoracic surgery)
2) once a doc (MD or DO), finish his residency (ie.pick a specialty), he or she may choose to further specialize in the field by doing a fellowship. So an internal medicine doc can choose to focus on heart, or lung, or kidney for example.
A BA simply means that the person took a foreign language in undergrad.. as for the rest, I believe it was already answered. A doctor is a doctor. A fellowship is actually prestigious so someone who has not only gone through residency but a fellowship is actually someone who has been more highly educated.
I have seen both MD and DO. The MD treats the symptom. The DO wants to know why you have that symptom.
I have always been told that you needed a good Internist. My husband and I started seeing one. He was rude, plus was just basically there for the money. We stuck it out for a couple years. He never even check my husbands prostate.
We changed to a DO a year ago. I will never see a MD again. Our new doctor is through. He checks out everything. Takes the time to talk to you. I love him.
My current primary care doctor is an MD. I have talked with him recently about adding some food-based supplements to hopefully assist with the arthritis in my back. He would have nothing to do with it and recommended I stick with my current muscle relaxant and pain killers. I don’t feel this is in the best interest of my heath based on all the side effects. Natural seems so much more “attractive” but I don’t know where to turn to find a Dr that will work with me on the prescription medications I am taking (for anxiety, depression, allergy, asthma, and acid reflux) and the addition of food-based supplements. I know what I would LIKE to be taking but want someone to talk to to make sure that I am going to harm myself with meds and supplements that may potentially not be safe to take together. Is a DO the right direction or is there another type of Dr I should be looking into? Any help is most welcome. Thank you in advance.
No harm in at least speaking to a DO and getting more information. You may be pleasantly surprised. My husband and I certainly were.
It does not matter where your physician trained, it does not matter their degree. The only thing is competency and compassionate care. My wife was hospitalized for 3 months and we saw nearly 100 physicians, some were MDs, some DOs. Most were the most uncompassionate morons with no knowledge base at all. I am not praising D.O.s because I am a D.O. But from my experience it does not matter.
But for those of you against D.O.s.. I want to say that two of my M.D. colleagues couldn’t even pass their internal medicine boards.. hmm. So in the end does D.O. Vs M.D. matter? No!
I don’t know of any doctor that would prefer to go to DO school over MD school
I’m. Probably because they already graduated from medical school…? I’m sure they wouldn’t want to go through 8 years of hell again…
I am. I live in Oklahoma and got accepted to both MD (OU) and DO (OSU) schools. I’m choosing the DO route because no matter what specialty I choose, I will have the foundation to practice general medicine and because we will be better trained at preventative medicine (as well as being equally trained in critical-care medicine). I plan to focus on my patients as a whole and their well-being rather than simply getting rid of their disease.
DOs aren’t real doctors. They’re people who couldn’t get into standard American med schools. Their MCAT scores and grades were too low. But those scores weren’t “bottom of the barrel.” The “bottom of the barrel” are forced to attend Caribbean (or other) foreign schools in order to obtain an MD.
I wouldn’t let either a DO or a US citizen/foreign degreed MD treat me. Nor would I let a PA treat me. These are made up degrees designed to boost college coffers via tuition by admitting unqualified students.
My gosh are you biased. I’m sorry if you have had a negative experience but to say these things is completely ignorant.
Rest assured Mike, judging by the way you speak, none of us doctors would even want to place ourselves within 3 miles of creatures like you ;). Good luck finding that MD who can tolerate you tho.
Mike Jones: Dude, you obviously didn’t read the rest of this thread. Actual DOs and even MDs on here have corrected the kind of blather you just spewed.
Wow. Many of you are very defensive of your specific degree and/or very offensive toward those with a degree different from yours. While I am not a doctor, I do have a unique point of view. First, I am a retired medical social worker who worked in hospice caring for the dying. Loved the job. I worked with both MD’s and DO’s. And really like anything else, I saw some great MD’s, and some really crappy ones that let their patients die in pain. The same goes for DO’s. After years of working in hospice, where you must treat the whole person, family, etc., I am convinced that the letters after your name are not nearly as important as your character, your passion to be the best doctor you can be, and a willingness to learn new things and most importantly, being able to put ego aside and acknowledge that you can be wrong at times and that there are usually more than one way to look at things. To me, those are the hallmarks of a great doctor.
Now, in addition to being a hospice social worker, I sadly also have Cystic Fibrosis, a genetic life limiting illness. Total bummer. Lol. Anyway, talk about walking a mile in another’s shoes as I got to see what it’s like to be one the receiving end of pain management. I recently changed doctors from a MD to a DO. The MD I was seeing, to treat my pain, had me on dilaudid 16mg long acting Q day, as well as 8mg short acting TID AND 4mg TID. Yes, he put me on two short acting regimes! He would see me for all of 5 minutes, and write the scripts. Now he was not mean at all, was nice to me, but did not spend much time with me and it seemed his solution was to always write a prescription.
I decided that I wanted to come down from this dose, and that I needed to see a doctor closer to me, but also one who agreed with my plan to titrate down. I ended up finding a DO who said he could help. At the first visit with him, he said in managing pain, he has no problems writing a prescription when needed, but that he also wanted to try new and different things to help with my pluretic pain. During the visit we did diaphragm work, as well as some of the techniques listed in the article above. He also talked about diet, supplements (which a person with CF lacks due to poor digestion), and other things we can do, in addition to taking pain meds, to care for my pain.
He was very honest too I thought when he talked about MD’s and DO’s. He said you can run into some awesome MD’s, as well as some that will simply only write scripts and not look at the whole person when managing their care or creating a care plan. But to be fair he said that you can run into some really dumb DO’s who are so against pain medication and who will only want to address pain with supplements, which he said was just dumb. In other words, he said you can have some flakes on both sides, and some real Jems on both sides. As a patient, he said you must ask questions of your doctors, don’t assume that just because they wear a white lab coat doesn’t make them God. That doctors make mistakes too. He stated you need to ask questions/interview your new doctor, get a feel for their beliefs on patient care, and then determine if it is a good fit for you. As a social worker, I can’t tell you how important that is, to ask questions and to advocate for yourself in order to get the best care.
So to sum up my point, at the end of the day, what makes a doctor great, more then letters at the end of a name, is the doctor’s character, drive to be the best, the ability to put aside ego, and the ability to be willing to learn new things, look at things from diffypoints of view, and be open to the idea you can be wrong at times.
I want to become a general practitioner. Can a person with a D.O become a general practitioner?
Can a DO become a general practitioner?
Yes! A GP is just another way to say you have done a residency in Family Medicine.
More DO’s go into Family Medicine than any one other field.
The amount of ignorance in these posts is astonishing. Nurses and non-medical people attacking DOs, when they obviously don’t have a clue what they are talking about. They don’t have the faintest idea how hard it is to pass medical school (MD/DO), multiple sets of board exams in school, residency, licensure boards, etc. They have no idea how DO students take BOTH DO and MD board exams in medical school, and how both DO and MD complete the same exact residencies and fellowships, side by side, especially with the merger of residencies. They have no idea how easy it is to go to a Caribbean medical school to get an “MD.” They have no idea how many current MDs are from foreign or Caribbean schools because they couldn’t get into an American MD or DO school. The saying, “Ignorance is bliss” could not be more accurate. However, thats our culture and society, ignorant, misinformed, unintelligent.
One thing about all the naysayers is seemingly true throughout, NONE of them have gone through the training of either MD/DO. Its pretty easy to talk down about something when you haven’t done any of it for yourself. But again, ignorance is bliss. We all know these types of people, they are ignorant and clueless, there’s no changing them. I’m an american MD student, my brother an american DO student. For what it’s worth, he scored higher than me on the MCAT, our GPAs were about the same. He just wanted to learn osteopathic treatment, I didn’t.
Medicine has become a joke. The drug addicts and abusers have taken legitimate pain killers away from the elderly and those perceived as potential abusers – those with long hair or those that appear to be too hip, even when these people haven’t been to a Doctor in years. Suffering is a way of life for these individuals. Naproxen, aspirin, ibuprofen, and all that similar junk neither works and just inflames and damages your liver and stomach. When you go to see a doctor now there is no MD, rather an OD or a physicians assistant pretending to be a doctor. The OD doesn’t want to prescribe anything narcotic that might actually relieve pain and the physicians assistant doesn’ t let you know he can’t perscrbe anything useful because his authority is limited. Of course they go to meetings with attorneys that tell them to prescribe the least risky medications and the paitients go home no better off. The Internet is slowly becoming the source for those who need legitimate care. The drug addicts and drug abusers along with the attorneys will continue to ruin the system that worked for many generations.
Consumers are getting smarter – now addicted housewives or other pretenders go to “pain clinics“ since they are becoming the new legitimacy for drug addicts – some even have their own pharmacies – how convenient. The system is a disappointment. P.S. – My father was a very successful Opthalmologist thru 2010 and I sincerely doubt he would have approved of everything that is happening to the medical system.
Umm, okay. That was totally irrelevant.
Hi. Really enjoyed the article. 15 years out of medical school and looking back… I can see how little it all mattered. 20 years ago I struggled with the decision of whether or not to go to a DO school. Now looking back it is like a dream.
Good doctors come from good people. There are good and bad people with both degrees. Find people you trust, not the the letters. It is easier to judge based on letters… But that is a lazy way to advocate for your heath.
Thanks for the information provided. I am sure it will help some young people to find their paths
since MD or DO seem to be so very similar HOW DO I CHOOSE
From reading all of these comments, it seems to me you can choose whoever is convenient and seems thorough and compassionate. If that’s no good enough for you, how about this?
If you want to keep your options open, go to a DO.
If you’re worried about the letters after the doctor’s name, go to a MD.
This comments section is frankly embarrassing for the medical community as a whole, regardless of position, title, or training. This type of hierarchical thinking reinforces siloed care and is a detriment to patient health. I can only hope we see this change moving forward and that all practitioners start putting their patients above their pride.
Relevant reading: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2474432
There’s absolutely nothing deficient about a DO degree compared to an MD degree. It’s analogous to a DMD degree vs. a DDS degree. What’s more relevant are board certifications, residencies completed, and simple experience. Would you rather have a board certified DO do plastic surgery on your face, or an uncertified MD? Think about it, and don’t trust an RN to rate MDs versus DOs. That’s like asking a kid to judge his parents.
D.O.’s focus more on “whole body” wellness while M.D.’s focus on the scientific/diagnostic method to identify and treat illness… through the use of prescription pharmaceutical substances. You would not go to a D.O. for a sinus infection, hypertension, or schizophrenia. An MD is the more salient option for acute/long-term bodily illness. Not to discredit a DO in any way.
However in specialized medical practice (ObGyn, psychiatry, ENT, plastic surgery FACS, cardiology, urology, etc) you will find that all of those physicians are limited to MD degrees. And more likely to be covered by insurance (HMO, PPO, POS) Hope this helps.
There are plenty of specialists who have DO degrees.
I am sorry that is just not correct. Ob/Gyn and Psych are some of the most prevalent specialties that DOs go into. While Family Medicine, Peds, EM, and Internal Medicine are most prevalent, Ob/Gyn and Psych are right up there. The same goes for General Surgery or even Orthopedic Surgery. While the numbers are fewer, there are DOs in very competitive specialties like Derm, Neuro, and Cardio.
I am not sure where you found information on insurance not covering DOs because that is just not true. Maybe you are just thinking about OMM which is a different case but if you mean medicine or more traditional procedures prescribed or conducted by a DO than insurance does not care about the letters after the physicians name.
In the end it does not matter if the physician is MD or DO as long as you connect to them and they understand what you want from your care. There are bad physicians with both degrees just as there are great ones.
As a patient, here are my experiences.
My MD retired and was replaced with a DO. She seemed perfectly pleasant. Then I looked into her qualifications. She graduated from an osteopathic college in Yakima, WA, which (sorry Yakima) is in the middle of nowhere. Who’d want to teach there? How good are the professors? Her residency was spent at a 2nd rate hospital. How good was what she learned there? So I switched to an MD who graduated from Duke University Medical School and landed a residency at a top-notch medical center. Now people argue that the medical education DOs and MDs receive is nearly identical. But what about the quality of their education/residency? Which provider would you choose?
Also, I was recently hospitalized for multiple medical issues. Two of the hospital’s docs who saw me were DOs. I complained to both that my back hurt a lot — something a DO is supposedly trained to “specially” treat. Neither did more than note my pain in my hospital chart. No diagnosis, no treatment, Once discharged, I saw my MD, who ordered an X-ray. I had a fractured vertebrae.
So much for seeing a DO. I’ll take an MD any day.
Several years ago I needed immediate back surgery for spinal stenosis and some bulging discs. I was falling down suddenly without warning. The neurosurgeon was a DO. I had complete confidence in his skills and he did an excellent job. I still have some back pain (not nearly as much), but as the surgeon explained before the surgery, he was fixing my legs(i.e.spinal nerves to my legs) not necessarily my pain. However, the pain is much better because he shaved the discs off as much as possible without resorting to fusion of the vertebrae. Since then I have had both hips replaced and a mechanical heart valve installed in my aorta all by M.D.’s. I can say there was no difference in the level of their skills or my confidence in their ability to do the surgeries. As it turns out my current internal medicine doctor (M.D.), is moving to another office location and as of today, my new internest is a D.O. No sweat.
Thanks for the wonderful blogs
My son has had 3 back & 1 neck surgeries by highly respected Neurosurgeons MD’s in MA.
Has been on disability since he was 51. From doctor to doctor & Pain Management (all MD’s)
he has suffered. He went to a DO Neurosurgeon at University of Miami Hospital who was
very caring and very late to his appointment because he spends whatever length of time each
Patient needs. He told my son (I was there) he could help him with another surgery that would
get him out of pain but……”only for a short time”. No surgery was done. This DO has a great reputation. I can understand why. Son is now off the pain meds and using medical Marijuana.
Doing things he had no hope of ever doing again and not having the side effects of pain pills. Thanks to the DO giving it to him straight.
So what was the medical treatment rendered by this D.O. that led to his expedited recovery?? Certainly the D.O.’s favorable reputation did not cure his spinal injury by a simple exam room visit. It must have been surgical or the result of heavy opioid pain medication (limited to a 3 day period for acute injury) Awaiting your answer for credibility…
Don’t trust everything you read online guys.
WOW! I am sure glad I became a veterinarian! I do have a comment though, good veterinarians
use and look at any thing that will help there patients. I feel that good physicians whether they be MD’s or DO’s as good scientists use everything they can to produce good outcomes in their patients. I have a lot of problems with the terms holistic,allopathic ad infinitum. What I mean is good physicians use everything at their disposal to help their patients such as nutrition, physical therapy, drugs, vaccines, counseling etc. But let us base these things on evidence based medicine. I know I do!
WOW! I am sure glad I became a veterinarian! I do have a comment though, good veterinarians
use and look at any thing that will help their patients. I feel that good physicians whether they be MD’s or DO’s as good scientists use everything they can to produce good outcomes in their patients. I have a lot of problems with the terms holistic,allopathic ad infinitum. What I mean is good physicians use everything at their disposal to help their patients such as nutrition, physical therapy, drugs, vaccines, counseling etc. But let us base these things on evidence based medicine. I know I do!
Wow, why disrespect the nurses? All nurses may not agree on this topic but we do work with doctors all the time, to over simply: I might not be an carpenter but if my house falls down in on me after he constructed it I can tell you he didn’t do a good job! I’ve been an RN for over 25 years. Worked with DO’s and MD’s. I disagree with many of the opinions, but any medical student (or doctor) disrespecting a nurse’s opinion altogether will probably not be that great of doctor. Nurses can help save you and I’ve seen some bury a resident when he was snarky to her or him, especially in the ICU setting (not that I agree with this). I’ve worked with DO’s and MD’s both and have great respect for both. As one person said you can find good and bad in all. I think the general public has the wrong perception of what a DO actually is and therefore think they are less qualified in some way. But I know this is not the case. It’s more about the individual than the degree.
By chance… not sure if you noticed the very slight, almost unrecognizable (sarcasm) bias toward D.O.’s versus Medical Doctors. The author most likely had a failure (whether personally or through an associate) in M.D. training and has a personal motivation. This is not meant to be attack-y, just an observation of the fact.
The cold hard truth is that – in any scenario – a Medical Doctor (M.D.) is superior to a D.O. Essential oils, acupuncture, and dietary recommendation is cute… But when it comes to Strep Throat, Hypertension (high blood pressure), or Schizophrenia… an M.D. prescribing western prescription medication is the only saliant treatment option. This is why 99% of health insurance firms (whether HMO, PPO, or POS) cover MD primary care providers.
Not in any way trying to discredit a Doc of Osteopathy… it just depends if you’re more solution-oriented or holistic-oriented in re: to bodily health. The fact that this article has an attack-y/very biased tone against MDs is unfortunate… and also suggests it’s own discrediting/falacy (“the lady doth protest too much methinks”)
Wow. Sure is easy to recognize a sycophant or an MD.
Your comment makes it remarkably clear that you don’t know what osteopathic medical training entails or what a DO degree represents.
Essential oils and acupuncture have literally nothing to do with osteopathic medicine; you are confusing NATUROPATHY with osteopathic medicine. Osteopathic physicians prescribe regular Western medicines, perform regular Western surgeries, and follow regular Western medical guidelines.
The only distinct feature of osteopathic physicians is that some perform osteopathic manipulative medicine. However, this is used as a supplement to a standard treatment plan, not a replacement.
I don’t mean to offend you in any way, but it would be appreciated if you could please stop talking about matters you do not understand.
Yeah I think I replied to you somewhere else…
That is not what a DO is. DOs do not prescribe essential oils or other pseudoscience. They prescribe pharmaceuticals and other science-based treatments, as well as conducting procedures the same as an MD.
DOs are not MD dropouts. out of the about 7200 matriculants to a DO school in 2017, 129 have previous healthcare experience with 29 having experience in allopathic medicine (stats from AACOM). These are primarily foreign medical students or doctors who immigrated to the US. You choose one or the other, not drop out of one and then switch. You could probably see that by the very low dropout rate in US medical schools.
Of course MD schools as a whole have higher matriculant stats than DO schools but you will get an MD candidate with fairly low stats but a great application with plenty of experiences and a DO candidate with great stats but not much else and vice versa. No patient is asking for my MCAT score or my undergrad GPA because it is not relevant to the care I will provide.
As as future physician, I find it extremely odd that you are so willing to bash your colleagues because they have two different letters next to their name, not to mention you are spreading falsehoods about DOs that are wildly untrue.
Maybe you are describing DOs that were trained in 1960, but modern DOs prescribe “western prescription medicine” just the same as MDs do.
I have had many doctors, both DOs and MDs. This article only hints at the vast difference in philosophical outlook between these professions. A DO is tasked with finding out out WHY a malady exists; an MD is tasked with finding out WHAT pill to give a patient to mask the malady.
Over time, if your PCP is an MD, your illness count will tend to rise. My experience when I have had a DO as my PCP is the illness count stabilizes and sometimes the DO discovers reasons or underlying conditions that actually reduce chronic illnesses.
If one is healthy it matters not what your doctor knows. If you are a chronically ill person you had better find yourself an experienced DO. Only your longevity is at risk in this comparison – so, if you are invincible or omnipotent, you are fine with an MD for your PCP.
Yikes. I am guessing this article was written by an MD, not a DO. Here are just 3 of the issues that stand out:
– DOs practice a variety of specialties, just like MD’s do. My spouse is a DO Emergency Physician. His closest DO friends from school are a dermatologist, a pediatrician, and an ophthalmologist. It’s outdated to say that DOs “tend to be primary care physicians”.
– It’s blatantly wrong to say that “by nature, if MDs tend to live in large, metropolitan areas (near major hospitals), then they will generally have higher salaries”. The opposite is often true! The lowest-paid physicians in the country are in desirable metropolitan areas, due to heavy competition. If you want to make $400K, practice in rural Wyoming. If you want to make $170K, practice in New York City.
– This article neglects to even mention that the MD and the DO match are merging, and that soon the distinctions will be essentially dissolved (other than the added OMM training).